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Experimental Idea: My Concepts for How Sonic Should Move/Control and Level Design

TheCliffStudios

Just a guy with underdeveloped ideas
Sep 9, 2017
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Disclaimer:
All of this is experimental untested concepts from my brain that I will soon be implementing into my own engine.

Hi, there a long time sonic fan who's about to study game design here!
For a while, I have had a few Ideas for how the games should work in 3D and now I'm going to discuss them with y'all.

First off momentum based physics, sonic can be fast and slow allowing for precise control and ludicrous speed, but that's not all, that alone won't do the trick, so here are the abilities sonic gets all of these have been chosen with control and maintaining/building momentum in mind. (just as a disclaimer this is designed with a controller in mind specifically the XBOX 360, (only one I have to hand))

let's start with the basics

Ball form
not much difference here gains more momentum from slopes but can't introduce it manually e.g. pressing forward. can turn/jump. the main difference is that you hold down the left trigger button to stay in ball form ( this will make more sense later when other mechanics are in mind)

Jump
doesn't automatically go into ball form, a longer hold will result in a higher jump.

Spin dash
the same as normal but you can turn while revving up. stays in ball form for a set time after launching (not yet decided)

Drop dash
Same as in mania

side step
works differently from modern games sonic runs sideways rather than moving a set difference longer you hold it down farther he will go allows the player to avoid obstacles without changing running directions

Action button
Sonic interacts with terrain and objects, activating level gimmicks but doing something else that's important, shifting momentum directions, allowing sonic to grab hold of a ledge and climb up or to start running on a near by wall when he is in the air, these actions will cause him to lose some momentum, but can allow the player to find parts of levels that couldn't be reached by conventional means and maintain momentum when faced with a wall.

camera controls
This is quite possibly the most important part of this control scheme left stick controls the camera. pressing in this stick changes it between two modes

Guide cam mode, this mode works like utopia every move control you make is affected by the position of the camera e.g. jumping while looking down will cause a longer lower jump than when looking up, the direction chosen when sticking to a wall with the action button is chosen by the direction the camera faces.

Free Cam
control is now determined with relevance to the direction sonic is facing, this control is less precise but with quick changes between these modes can allow sonic to move more freely e.g. free cam while running along side a wall so that the camera faces the wall quick switch then jump and then use the action button to run on the wall. this would take skill to pull off introducing a difficulty curve that is rewarding to beat.



Level design.
these ideas are far more simplistic than the control scheme.
two types of levels.

chase levels
(Don't worry these aren't mock speed)
these a clear objective that you need to build momentum to catch up with, levels designed with plenty of chances to gain speed. some harder than other but more rewarding, fairly linear maybe some shortcuts locked behind skill barriers, difficult jumps, wall running etc.

Open levels

very open levels basically a playground to explore with one or more objectives and many ways to complete them.

finally one last point.
sonic should have a health bar, for an unexperienced player sonic is hard to control and always will be, to be enjoying the game needs to be more forgiving, or else why ever experiment with the controls if you might die.

so final note no cheap deaths, no hard to see bottomless pits etc.

I really want to hear opinions on this, I think it could work great what about you?
 
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TheCliffStudios

Just a guy with underdeveloped ideas
Sep 9, 2017
12
6
13
25
Also if anyone has some specific sources for guides/help when designing sonic fan games could they share that with me? I know generic stuff like Brackyies but no momentum physics/sonic games specific stuff
 
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Murasaki

Co-Creator of Sonic Utopia
Aug 29, 2017
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I could definitely see the value in a "steering" control style, but it seems like it would feel terribly clunky for normal motion or manually switching. What I've considered is tying it to ball form. For basic running I think a regular relative-to-camera movement direction is good.

As for a health bar, I haven't had enough time to really think about health in Sonic games. Ideally the health mechanic should complement the core gameplay mechanic, which in this case is momentum. Running to collect your rings does engage this, so it may be a situation of fixing what isn't broken.
In addition, one must also consider the function of things that actually cause damage. Environmental hazards force a player to learn control, and not let their momentum get out of control.

Enemies do this as well, but they aren't meant to be a real threat. Enemies in Sonic games are meant to provide the player a means of momentum-redirection. So if you jump off a really tall cliff, an enemy at the bottom could bounce you right back up to the top of another cliff.

Regarding resources, it is possible for you to learn 3D physics, but be prepared for a long journey. It's not just about learning how to put things together, but also years of training your brain in spatial reasoning skills.
I'd suggest finding some existing character controllers for whatever engine you're working in, take them apart and learn how they work, then build something new with what you've learned. This is what I did. And then you could also do the same with open-source Sonic engines as well. I wish you luck!
 
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TheCliffStudios

Just a guy with underdeveloped ideas
Sep 9, 2017
12
6
13
25
I could definitely see the value in a "steering" control style, but it seems like it would feel terribly clunky for normal motion or manually switching. What I've considered is tying it to ball form. For basic running, I think a regular relative-to-camera movement direction is good.

As for a health bar, I haven't had enough time to really think about health in Sonic games. Ideally the health mechanic should complement the core gameplay mechanic, which in this case is momentum. Running to collect your rings does engage this, so it may be a situation of fixing what isn't broken.
In addition, one must also consider the function of things that actually cause damage. Environmental hazards force a player to learn control, and not let their momentum get out of control.

Enemies do this as well, but they aren't meant to be a real threat. Enemies in Sonic games are meant to provide the player a means of momentum-redirection. So if you jump off a really tall cliff, an enemy at the bottom could bounce you right back up to the top of another cliff.

Regarding resources, it is possible for you to learn 3D physics, but be prepared for a long journey. It's not just about learning how to put things together, but also years of training your brain in spatial reasoning skills.
I'd suggest finding some existing character controllers for whatever engine you're working in, take them apart and learn how they work, then build something new with what you've learned. This is what I did. And then you could also do the same with open-source Sonic engines as well. I wish you luck!
thanks for the feed back, when I said cheap deaths I was talking about is certain 2D games have obstacles that come too quickly ( I have heard that the advanced series is particularly guilty of this, I agree that damage should encourage control but I think in certain situations the placement can be unfair. as for health, I see your point, and while I still believe I'm right I find it hard to argue, something I would have to experiment with.
 
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TheCliffStudios

Just a guy with underdeveloped ideas
Sep 9, 2017
12
6
13
25
I suppose it's also worth mentioning that for platforming I don't want the player to slow down, I want to encourage them to take it at full speed using well-timed jumps and such. while the free cam mode should make it easier to do platforming at a slower speed I don't think the player should have to.
 
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Murasaki

Co-Creator of Sonic Utopia
Aug 29, 2017
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Yeah, 2D games would do well to pan forward a little bit. That said though, I think the frame rate difference between the JP/EU and American versions of the classics does make a big difference. Mania seems to run at the JP/EU speed, and I feel a lot more in control as a result. In addition, the level design also plays a big part in this.

This is quite a bit easier in 3D since you can always see what's ahead of you, but making a good camera control system is a big challenge. It has to move quickly enough to adapt to the player's movement, but also slow enough to prevent motion sickness. I've only just now (this morning) finished a camera system that I'm happy with.
 

Misinko

Feel the the fire! Break your vision!
Aug 29, 2017
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Yeah, 2D games would do well to pan forward a little bit. That said though, I think the frame rate difference between the JP/EU and American versions of the classics does make a big difference. Mania seems to run at the JP/EU speed, and I feel a lot more in control as a result.
PAL (EU) Megadrives were the only ones that ran slower (50Hz). NTSC (JP/AM) Megadrives ran at the full 60. Back then, this meant that PAL games ran 10 frames slower than other regions, which often ran at 60FPS. Mania runs at the full 60.